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Poster: Deadhead225 Date: Dec 18, 2012 4:47am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Guns in Australia

I don't think you understand the connection guns have to the culture of the United States if you are actually advocating the elimination of them in our society.

First, the mayhem that will ensue in the event that guns are banned altogether is something you may not fully comprehend. For a very long time SKS & AK-47 rifles could be obtained here for around $100 (They trade chickens for them in the Middle East). There are large weapons caches all over the place in this country. Some are contained in buried school busses. Others are in multi-room vaults and safes nearly everywhere. The only way eliminating guns on this scale is going to be even remotely possible or effective is going to be through house-to-house searches. Without them, there are going to be enormous amounts of guns left within the populace. All who possess them are then going to be felons. The only ones willing to use them will be felons. You have just exploded the population of criminals and prisoners who you have no ability to incarcerate. These people are patriots and veterans with a passion for individual freedom and are willing do die for their Constitutional right to bear arms. Will the weapons simply be seized without compensation as well?

If you are eliminating the ability of the people to change their government if necessary AND eliminating their 4th Amendment rights by doing house-to-house searches for weapons AND taking their property without compensation, then what you are actually advocating is a complete revision of our society and government in the United States. That is all fine, but I hope you are personally prepared for the insanity that will go along with that process. Many people are unwilling to accept those type ideals peacefully.

We are not Australia. We are not governed by a Sovereign. We chose to eliminate the Sovereign from our lives using guns about 300 years ago. If we now allow some fucking nut case to change the fabric our society to this degree it makes a mockery of every man and woman who gave his or her life for the creation and preservation of this country. It also gives the power to any delusional nut case in the future since he knows he has the potential to effect such changes.

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Poster: snow_and_rain Date: Dec 18, 2012 7:56am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Guns in Australia

I see, so instead of introducing sane gun laws, we should be restrained by the fear of what may happen if these gun-hoarding nut cases get angry. I love this country. If these paranoid zealots are so pro-America, then they should agree to abide by the laws of Congress. If not, they should be arrested.

Somehow, I don't see how a militia uprising in Michigan or Montana is going to make me feel less safe here in Washington, DC. This place is already a war zone. In case you've not been paying attention, the insanity is already here. Gun violence is out of control in this country. Excuse me if I don't consider assault weapons to be part of the "fabric" of America.

This post was modified by snow_and_rain on 2012-12-18 15:56:05

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Poster: Deadhead225 Date: Dec 18, 2012 9:47am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Guns in Australia

Yeah I lived in DC through the crack era in the 80s and early 90s. I will remind you that no gun ownership was legal there all during that time. Rayful Edmonds certainly did not let that stop him from establishing a crack empire worth hundreds of millions. Has that made you any safer? Nope. Just made you, the law abiding citizen, vulnerable and unable to protect yourself. DC is another case in point to illustrate that gun laws will not work. Still workin' great according to your account.

I personally chose to leave there when my wife and I were sitting in the Edward R. Murrow park and a traffic dispute broke out on Pennsylvania Ave. during which I saw the maw of a .45 pass in front of my eyes. I opted to live in a place where at least the people who knew how to use weapons were allowed to possess them.

The fear of it has nothing to do with it. The reality is what will ensue if you propose an Australia style situation is all I am saying. That was the post. Guns in Australia and the stipulation that getting rid of all of them like that was going to solve the problem. I am not advocating the behavior, just want awareness of the likely outcome. These people are in every state. It is not the stereotypical Idaho survivalist deal. Not to mention all the other people who have the simple safe with a half dozen weapons. They are all currently within the law and do not wish their status to change.

DC is the perfect parallel to what you are advocating for the whole country. Here you have DC with tough gun laws, plenty of criminals with guns in proximity to VA with plenty of gun availability. If you outlaw guns nationally you will have the same deal. You will have a nation where the law abiding will not have them, but the criminals will laugh at them being outlawed when they are everywhere just like they do now. Insanity is doing the same thing repeatedly expecting a different result.

My fear is the incursion on my rights, which are already tenuous at best, being further sacrificed through fear and some crazy. Fear is always the catalyst for people to surrender their rights. I see it as a method to make inroads on at least 3 right here. Back to the Sheepie thing.

This post was modified by Deadhead225 on 2012-12-18 17:47:30

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Poster: snow_and_rain Date: Dec 18, 2012 9:59am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Guns in DC

Not to worry, the Supreme Court a few years ago forced DC to allow the sale and possession of handguns, against the wishes of an overwhelming majority of DC residents. So I guess the crime wave is finally over.

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Poster: Deadhead225 Date: Dec 18, 2012 12:23pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Guns in DC

At least you will be able to protect yourself in your home if you so choose.

Until/unless you are a victim of criminal activity, you have no idea what the right to possess a firearm really means. If you think that dialing 911 or the expected police protection is helpful then, I only hope that you do not experience the cruel wake-up of having cops tell you that they can not protect you. I was under this mistaken impression for a long time. Once I started relating my own experiences and found out how many others shared them, I realized that relying on someone else for my & my family's personal safety was extremely naive.

If you ask my kids what they think about all of this, I guarantee you that they will not advocate gun control as the answer after what they have seen. If they knew their only defense was a phone, they would be scared shitless on a daily basis.


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Poster: snow_and_rain Date: Dec 19, 2012 7:30am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Guns in DC

I'll just say this. I would never allow my child to spend time at a home with firearms. That's a deal breaker for me.

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Poster: cosmicharIie Date: Dec 19, 2012 8:16am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Guns in DC

Imo, if you love him, when he's older @8yrs old, enroll him/her in a good NRA course, and also learn hand to hand combat. Of course if he's mentally ill, don't.(duh)

I also think every swingin 18yr old should have to serve in the military to learn to defend the country we claim to love.

Like it or not, this is a mean world and self-defense knowledge and enabling is essential.

When I was in highschool there was NRA and ROTC (ohhhh...evil!) on campus. I've seen many a student going to an NRA course carrying an unloaded weapon. And none of them ever shot up the school!

Whats your plan concerning a home invasion? throwing your phone at them? Your homeboy's at CNN, MSNBC are lying to you. The real enemy is criminals and ANY government that wants to disarm it's law abiding citizens.

but go ahead and seek scapegoats like evil "preppers" and teaparty people. After all, Big Brother loves you. LOL

This post was modified by cosmicharIie on 2012-12-19 16:16:26

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Poster: snow_and_rain Date: Dec 19, 2012 8:43am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Guns in DC

Hmmmm I guess I'll just have to wing it. Ii know this though. Guns in the home are more likely to be used against one of the occupants than against an intruder. So not having one makes me feel safer. I know, crazy, right? Damn statistics.

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Poster: Deadhead225 Date: Dec 19, 2012 9:44am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Guns in DC

I am glad that you have the right to make that choice. Just don't relegate the rest of us to a position where we have no choice.

Guns are also for more than just home protection. We shoot rabid animals and predators that kill part of the food stock. A huge number of people actually shoot animals and eat them.

As a citizen of DC just remember "Lies, damn lies and statistics". A staple in this day and age. There are a lot of criminals with buckshot in their asses who do not show up in the statistics. They don't run to the hospital or dial 911 when then get caught in the act.

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Poster: snow_and_rain Date: Dec 19, 2012 9:50am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Guns in DC

Well, I like to know the odds. Ignore them if you like, but it is what it is. Guns in the home are more often used against the people that live there -- whether through accidents, suicides or whatever. Whatever you may think, you make your family less safe by having guns.

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Poster: Deadhead225 Date: Dec 19, 2012 4:24pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Guns in DC

I agree that it is good to know the odds, but knowing how your data is collected and if it is corrupt or not is also good. The likelihood of a criminal or a shooter reporting that there was an incident where a criminal is shot in the act is reduced to say the least. Too much paperwork and risk of BS. I reckon that would have an effect on the statistics.

My kids had nightmares BEFORE guns were prevalent in their home and they felt unprotected, knowing that those uniforms they thought were protecting them were not. Teach them gun safety, and show your kids that a gun can blow a hole clean through a thick piece of metal or shoot through a tree and sill have enough velocity to hit the target, and imagine what this would do to your head if you screw around with it - they kind of get it. Show them pictures of people with their heads blown off, whatever it takes. Kids love gory stuff, and they get it. Whoa dad! Look at that!

Couple that with the fact that they know that the only way they are kept safe from fucking meth and crack heads is by virtue of a weapon of that caliber, then they have respect for it. If people and kids are not educated to deal with danger, how are they going to face the countless dangers that exists in the world every day? Trucks, trains, sharp things. C'mon. Danger is everywhere you can not completely avoid it, so learn to deal with all of it. Every eventuality you can think of. I do not believe in sheltering my kids from anything. They are happy and well adjusted. All who meet them consider it a pleasure. Unlike many other kids they meet.

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Poster: William Tell Date: Dec 19, 2012 2:39pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Guns in DC

Here's a shocker, perhaps: I have MANY guns...they are so "locked up", however, that before I could gain access to one, and then the ammo, the intruders could've long since pounded the living snot outta me...certainly well before I could access the smaller ones, then their ammo, and then start blasting...

I have them for a variety of reasons (work, safety--in the middle of nowhere, on the border, in wilderness--and as keepsakes [really]), but at home with kids (no longer) and the wife, I never could bring myself to keep one easily accessible like I assume Mando and DH do...always felt too risky. But, I do think that with LOTS of regulation, specially certified peeps should be able to do so if they so choose.

Just an admission...for no apparent reason (as I keep telling everyone, I am NOT getting involved in this!).

I v much enjoyed reading your take on this all, S&R--good on ya! Have a great Christmas or whatever you celebrate...

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Poster: cosmicharIie Date: Dec 19, 2012 3:21pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Guns in DC

I wouldn't mind having a few dozen Claymore's and a bouncing betty. You never know if your going to be overun by a herd of elephants or donkeys.

Speaking of Donkeys, here's a photo of the 3 that share my abode in tracy

Attachment: 378473_115604878558547_1656317579_n.jpg

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Poster: Pig Street ! Date: Dec 19, 2012 8:57pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Guns in DC

Rhino

Attachment: Rhino_Death.bmp

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Poster: unclejohn52 Date: Dec 19, 2012 8:28am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Guns in DC

Not to be too glib... but I'll let Sam make my point, roughly 1:22

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vN7ehccspao


and, LOL.